HIS New Mercies: August 2007

This is one of the best answers I got.

From a CoC minister: James 1 says that we sin when (1) we want wrong things (2) we desire them enough to sin in order to have them (3) we reap death (not right then, obviously - the result of sin is spiritual death, Rom. 3:23, 6:23).

I think we (from birth) inherit a tendency toward sin. We inherit the rebellious nature of Adam (and Eve) and therefore sin. Before we realize what it is, we've already sinned. That's not the same as saying babies are born in sin (I don't believe that) or that children sin (define "child"). If sin is rebellion against God (and it is), one has to know God's law/will in order to rebel against it. That brings up the old "age of accountability," thing, which is itself a misnomer because it's not about age (my opinion here), but about understanding.

Calvinistic doctrine, upon which a lot of "denominational" teaching is founded, does believe in "hereditary total depravity." (do a search for a discussion of that concept). That doesn't mean, of course, that every person in such a church believes that, but if you dig into the "official" church doctrine, there it is.

My answer to your last question is NO. I don't think there's a four-year-old extant who is in rebellion to God, and therefore not lost. They aren't saved (which would imply having sinned/been redeemed), they are safe (un-lost).

Confused now? Good. Me too.

Based on some drama we've been experiencing lately, I sent out the following email to several friends, pastors, ministers and family members: Do you believe that children sin or are sinners? Either way, what scripture have you found that convinces you of your answer. Do you think "denominational" churches "in general" teach that children are sinners? If they ARE sinners, and a young child dies before he has accepted Christ (say four-years-old), is his soul in danger?

Several have answered and several others were very interested in what I found out so I thought I would share some of the answer.

1. From a friend who was raised in the CoC and whose husband was raised in the Baptist church. "No we do not believe children can sin. The Baptist don't believe that either. They are saved once they can make the decision to accept Christ. Once they learn right from wrong and can make the decision to make Christ their Lord and Savior are they saved or unsaved."

2. From a former youth minister who is very versed in theology. "The short answer: No. The longer answer: There are reasons that some believe we are born in sin. There are reasons that others believe that we are not born in sin, but acquire that nature later. I believe both can be adequately proved and adequately disproved. Both sides claim the argument that the other side is “taking the passage out of context.” The OT and NT discuss sin-the nature of sin-moral code-ethics, etc, and the opposite group of doctrines salvation, fellowship with God, living in agreement with God, etc. The OT does not give a clear picture of God viewing children as evil, or sinful, or separate from him. From a few passages, one could surmise the opposite. Isaiah 7:16: “For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good…” Then you have the fact that when the Israelites sinned against God in the Desert, God only prohibited the adults from entering the Promised Land for their sin, the children were not charged with wrongdoing. In the NT, I can’t think of any passage where Jesus ever viewed children as sinful or separated from fellowship with God. However, in other NT passages, from the theology of Paul, some come to the belief of a child being born in sin. It seems to fit with a dualistic view of the human spirit. To say that we are born in sin eliminates the ambiguous argument of “the age of accountability.” Trying to prove with a Biblical argument just when someone hits that magic moment in life when they are now seen as adult enough to be accountable for faith and sin is a very difficult task (and in my opinion impossible). So for me, since I see nothing in the OT, or in any of the Gospels, or anything Jesus said, that would suggest that God/Jesus see babies/children as sinful and separated from God, I don’t hold to that belief. And the fact that even Paul’s theology is not clear on the subject.
So that leaves me with that horrendous argument of the magic moment of accountability. I can’t prove when that happens, nor can anyone else. So that is the end of my knowledge on this subject. However it is not the end of my current feelings and thoughts on the subject. BUT, that discussion will need to wait a year or so, be done face to face, etc."

3. From a current Presbyterian minister. "Well, here's my answer, and trying to stay Biblical. ALL have sinned and fall short of God's "expectation". Sin is not something you do, it is a condition that we as humans are literally born with. Just like the flu is a disease with symptoms that manifest itself as sneezing, coughing, fever, etc. SIN, as a condition, manifests itself in our actions (selfishness, jealousy, bitterness, lying, etc). We call these bad things we do "sin", but the reality is that the problem is deeper. Because I believe that sin is a condition, rather than things we do, I believe that even babies are born in this condition of sin. This answers your first question. Your second question.....Do I believe that many churches teach that children are sinners? I think that any church that teaches the Bible should teach this. Romans 3:23... "all have sinned." "If they ARE sinners, and a young child dies before he has accepted Christ (say four-years-old), is his soul in danger?" No, I believe absolutely not. I believe that we achieve salvation, not thru our own actions, but by God's action on the cross. This is what the Bible calls GRACE. None of us deserve salvation, since all fall short. So salvation is a GIFT from God through His son Jesus Christ. For the visual, Jesus bridges the gap (sin) between us and God. We can be reconciled to God because of Jesus' death on the cross. Some believe that there is an age of accountability. Since children and toddlers cannot even concieve of GOD, they will never truly be able to commit their lives or trust in Him... they would not understand that, therefore they are NOT accountable. Once we reach this age of accountability (when we can think abstractly), we choose to accept the GIFT or to deny it. I believe this is the only unforgivable sin: to deny Jesus Christ, and that can happen at a more mature age. Don't ask me what that age is! (-;"

4. From a member of a local Baptist church. "Hmm - this will be my opinion - not something I know from church...I've always heard/learned that children are ok until they reach the "age of accountability" but of course no one knows when that is. I've always thought it was when the child had a rational understanding of right/ wrong. I guess I've not thought much about it past that but since Bradley is growing up so quickly - I'm sure I need to think about it some more. I guess I've always been skeptical of the little ones who are baptized because I wonder if its them or their parents. But then our pastor was 5 when he was baptized. As far as Baptist faith teaching that children are sinners...I don't know what is taught in Sunday School. But I would say that through things like VBS they definitely give the plan of salvation w/ the elem. age kids. I've worked w/ the 5's (heading into Kdg) and we talk about doing things that are wrong, disobedience, etc. and how that makes God sad, etc. And I know that I've heard our pastor say at baby dedications something to the effect that "even though this little baby is so innocent and precious, we know that he/she was born into sin and will one day need to accept Christ as his/her Savior." Or something like that."

5. From a wise friend, member of a Presbyterian church. "Hey, boy, can you ask some questions! [My husband] got this yesterday and he wanted us to call you last night to talk it through but we were finishing our bathroom. I don't have much time since I am at work but here are a few things to think about: If we do not earn our salvation through good works, then do we earn our damnation/condemnation through "bad" works. At what point does the manifestation of sin become egregious enough to need to be atoned for? Is baptism a "work" or "an act of obedience" or a symbol of God's grace as we "enter" the visible church. Is our sinfulness a human condition/nature or is sin specific actions that over time result in our need of being saved. Can we ever know if someone who was baptized truly had a repentant heart and was regenerated? Is salvation man's action or God's action? In Romans, it talks about us all becoming sinful in Adam (through Adam's disobedience and rebellion) and us becoming restored through Christ. That is where I would go to understand the nature of sin. I don't have a Bible up here yet and don't have time to look for verses right now. The basic baptizing infants is like circumcision in the OT. It was an action that identified the child with the church. It was also a grace given at that time. It is part of doctrine that is called Covenant theology. As a member of the flock or church or congregation, the child will be brought up and nurtured in the things of Christ resulting in sanctification and progressive regeneration. The parents and the church vow to raise the child in a Godly fashion and teach him about his sinful nature and what Christ has done to restore him to God. It is our hope that there is never a day when a child does not understand that and love Christ in return. The child is still progressively responsible for obedient actions and Christian behavior. Since baptism earmarks him as a child of God and promises his Christian growth, he is assumed to have eternal life if he dies young. I know it's crazy. I'm sorry but I just thought of something. Salvation of young children is a problem area theologically regardless of which denomination or doctrine addresses it. You either have to give them a bye by establishing "an age of accountability" or you have to say they haven't sinned enough yet or you have to bring them into the church as "covenant children"--which is what we do. No one is willing or able to say that a small child is eternally damned. If you see baptism as a totally volitional act, then you exempt them by saying they aren't old enough or conscious enough to make a decision for Christ. If you don't believe that we inherited Adam's sin from the get-go, you say the kids are pure until they sin enough on their own (blank slate theory). If you believe that God initiates salvation, then you are more likely to bring the child into the nurture of the church with baptism and expect God to fulfill the promise---"to you and your household". Different beliefs on sovereignty and salvation baptism will understandably result in different explanations of baptism and what to do with kids."

6. From a current minister of a "progressive" Church of Christ. "Interesting question. The issue has more to do with the concept of original sin than it does whether a four-year old can actually have the intellectual capacity to have trusting faith, cognitive repentance (or even awareness) of sin.
The idea of original sin actually most systematically articulated in the 6th century AD by Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo (although it has been developing over the previous two hundred years). Oddly enough, Augustine’s interpretation is based on a mistranslation in the Latin (from the original Greek) in Romans.
Whether or not children are in need of regeneration is debatable, but the notion that they can be responsible is not. Assuming that children are guilty of sin (which I doubt), they are not capable of the cognitive choice necessary to be a disciple. God’s provision through the work of Christ will have attended to the spiritual needs of those who are unable to repent. At four, children can mime the words or request baptism, but they really do not have clue. I am not a big proponent of the “age of accountability” (who can say when that is?), but I understand why that phrase developed…there is a point at which a person has the mental faculties to be aware of their sin and the turn. How much must they understand about the theological nuances is irrelevant…do they trust in God through Christ is the bigger question.
I fail to see (theologically and practically) how that children can be born guilty of the sin of another and thus hell-bound if they die before some experience of regeneration.
Catholic and most protestant churches opt for some form of original sin, even Baptists who, like the CofC, deny the validity of infant baptism. Strange as it seems, they deny the necessity of infant baptism, but try to get children to “confess Christ” or pray the sinner’s pray at a very young age, often baptizing them at the ages of 4 or 5. It is truly inconsistent. I am attaching an section of one of my favorite books regarding salvation. It deal a bit with infant baptism and, I think, may touch a bit on original sin.
As someone who believe that I should give a long answer even when short answer will do, I apologize for the brevity of this answer. I am bit pressed for time right now and would love to give you a longer answer. Let’s talk soon." If you are interested in the aforementioned document, please let me know.

7. From a peeer, friend, fellow mom and member of a "progressive" Coc: "i am giving your question some thought. i would have to say no, i don't believe children are sinners. i am not sure of which scriptures back this thought up though... i am thinking on that.
it is not my experience that denominational churches teach this...and i am basing that on my friends who are lutheran, baptist, and methodist. i don't believe a child, especially a four year old, who doesn't have a full understanding of God's commands and God's sacrifice, can ever be in danger of damnation.
not only do children have to fully understand the concept of good vs. evil, they would then also have to understand forgiveness and Christ's death to be held accountable. i don't think an understanding of this concept is possible, until much later, in mid adolescence. i probably would go as far as to say that it's late adolescence, instead of the idea we (the coc) maintains of like 9 years old. i think we make the decision to follow Christ way too early - not that it's a bad idea to want to be in a relationship with Christ, i just don't think we fully grasp the concept until much much later, and therefore i don't think God would punish us until we are able to understand His plan.
just my opinion.
i will think on some scripture and get back to you.
interesting topic..."

8. From a minister of a non-institutional Coc: "For sinful nature in the NIV, see
http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=sinful+nature§ion=0&translation=niv&oq=sinful%2520nature&new=1&sr=1.
For info on inherited sin and Scriptures refuting the doctrine, see
http://www.biblestudyguide.org/ebooks/mcnabb/bible-answers-calvinism.PDF and
http://www.biblestudyguide.org/topical/total-inability.htm.
For info regarding Catholicism, which might come in handy when talking with your neighbor, see
http://www.biblestudyguide.org/ebooks/davidriggs/catholic-teaching-examined.PDF. This info is by a man who was a Catholic but now is a very good gospel preacher.

Thank you to ALL of you who responded and to those who plan to respond. I am very interested in any insights you have. If you would like to know why I am asking this, it is something I will gladly email to you but must not post here.

MAY GOD BE PRAISED FOR OUR SEARCH FOR TRUTH!